**assuming streaming. Satisfactory, my current obsession, runs okay in the Frame but it’s definitely pushing it.
I’ve never had any kind of VR so this is all new to me, but having my game window in a comfortable place with other windows or desktops floating around me is the peak futuristic experience to me.
To reference one of my favorite books, Snow Crash, this is a place I could imagine meeting the Librarian and playing with a model of earth.
I could genuinely imagine working in this thing with the right peripherals.
Edit: flat, not 2D.
Disagree strongly. My trusty old 65" LG C1 is considerably better for 2D games than any VR headset I’ve tried. It has better colors, deeper contrast, brighter HDR, higher resolution, higher refresh rate. (And before you say something about the spyware, my LG has never had an internet connection so I don’t worry about it.)
If you usually game on an older, smaller IPS or TN monitor (less than 30"), I can understand why you would say something like like this. In that case a VR headset would be a major upgrade for you, just from the increase in perceived display size, along with a better refresh rate & response time. But if you have a decent-sized gaming OLED, then it’s no competition. The gaming display wins every time over most VR hesdsets.
For me, the only thing I use my VR headset for is for VR porn and VR games. Everything else gets enjoyed on the TV.
I’m farsighted. I can’t imagine the headaches I’d get using vr
It doesn’t really work that way because of the lenses. Your vision works the same both in and out of VR.
yes, focusing on a screen inches away is still focusing on a screen inches away
The
stereoscopic displaylense forces your eyes to focus as if the content were further away. It’s wild. I don’t need glasses for things up close, but I have to jam my glasses into the headsets to see properly. I assume the opposite would be true, but if you have experienced otherwise please let me know. I’m curious.Interestingly enough, the focal length of the lenses and perceived distance due to stereoscopic parallax are completely unrelated.
The lenses can’t reshape themselves, so the screens have to always sit at a constant perceived distance from your eyes, typically set around the middle of where the eyes are used to focusing, about 2 meters away. This isn’t a problem, because the effect of the brain taking depth cues from parallax is much stronger, so the focal length detail just fades into the background.
What this all means though is that whether or not you need glasses in a VR headset is entirely dependent on whether you need glasses to see objects 2 meters away outside VR. This remains true even when objects in VR are much closer or farther as perceived by stereoscopic vision.
Thanks!
I didn’t think the perceived distance mattered - as you say, things rendered as “close” were not easier to see without glasses when I explored this phenomenon.
However, I didn’t realize that it was all due to the focal length of the lenses. I know very little about lenses and vision.
So the lenses essentially make it so that the headset screens feel ~2 meters away, as far as your ability to see things near/far?
Thanks!
Yep, you got it.
The lenses actually have your eyes focusing on a spot about 6 feet or 2 meters away, about the median distance your eyes should be used to anyway. I’ve seen nearsighted people be surprised they still need glasses in VR.
Have you tried it? I don’t have vision problems but even I was really impressed with how “natural” it felt.
I’ve done a lot of FPV flying with older goggles and it’s exactly as you describe - focusing on a screen that feels entirely too close. Not the case at all when I used my friend’s VR headset! I think he has a second gen oculus so it’s probably even better now.
I can only fly FPV for half an hour before I get a headache but I binged like 2 hours of [VR escape room game I forgot the name of] with no issue
Out of curiosity, what FPV goggles are you using? (Edit: nvm, I saw the name in a different comment)
I’ve been running the HDzero Box Pros and they are pretty comfortable in terms of closeness to screen. Definitely different than VR- feels more like sitting in a movie theater rather than looking through binoculars. Not as pixelated as early VR or FPV either.
I wish the Index had a fan like the box pros, it helps a lot.
Definitely different than VR- feels more like sitting in a movie theater rather than looking through binoculars.
This is a good way to put it even for non-box goggles. I’m always aware of the screen edges and it gets worse the longer I use it, probably because my eyes struggle to stay focused. But with VR, I was completely and instantly immersed.
Do you have stereoscopic goggles or box goggles? Boxes make my eyes hurt after a while. The ones with lenses still put the screen pretty close but it’s a lot easier on the eyes. As a bonus, you can adjust the focus of each so you can correct for vision without mashing your glasses in there.
I have fatsharks but can’t remember exactly which, some mid range model (Dominator v2? Maybe?). I can adjust them to feel natural but after a few minutes, my head hurts and I need to close one eye. Kinda defeats the point of goggles so I mostly use my $40 AliExpress box goggles from 2016.
I’ve used some other fatsharks and it was about the same experience. My friend has whatever the newest DJI set is (before they got banned in the US) but I haven’t tried them yet.
[Edit] my goggles are indeed Dominator v2s and the other model I’ve used is the HDO or HDO2
Hard disagree, but if you’re enjoying it then more power to ya.
I’d be interested to hear if you’re still doing this a year from now. I’m a huge VR nerd, to the extent that when I first got VR in like 2019 I didn’t have even the slightest inclination to play anything non-VR anymore and I gave away my consoles. I didn’t go back to any flat-screen gaming for over a year. The meta quest has actually had multiple ways to do pretty solid remote desktop for years now, and I also have a dongle that lets me connect any HDMI source and play on a massive virtual screen. I’ve used these things a couple of times, but I always prefer just using a normal screen or TV. I have a headstrap that makes my VR headset very comfy and I have no problem playing for hours at a time, but for flat screen gaming, I don’t want to have to wear something on my head. I’ve seen many people expressing excitement for using the steam frame this way, but I have to assume it’s mostly people new to VR and they probably won’t stick with it, but maybe I’m wrong.
I’m a big VR nerd as well, but I always saw it as a medium adjacent to flat gaming, not a substitute or upgrade, so I’ve pretty much always bounced between the two since the Vive. I am excited for the Frame’s potential as a portable desktop, but I don’t hold any illusions of that being something I’ll regularly use beyond traveling and hotel stays, lazy days in bed, etc. I imagine most people will land in that area once the newness wears off.
Then again, I’m privileged to have lots of tech and no family members competing for it. I could see someone in different circumstances making the Frame their main gaming device for both flat and VR games, even though that feels as weird to me as the idea of people using the Steam Deck as their main AAA game device, which also definitely happens.
I always saw it as a medium adjacent to flat gaming, not a substitute or upgrade
Yeah I’d say that’s about where I’d put myself these days. I probably still play a bit more VR than traditional flat games, but I’d agree that now I see it more as different way of doing basically the same thing instead of that first year where I was convinced I’d never go back. The opportunity to give away some pretty sweet gifts was also a big part of why I gave away the consoles. I didn’t think I’d miss them, but I eventually came back around and repurchased some older ones for myself. Nothing from current gen though.
I guess the fact that I was never much into using VR for virtual displays just surprised me a bit because of how otherwise obsessed with the medium I am. I’ve done it several times, and while it works well and I don’t really have anything bad to say about it, I just never went back after trying any particular game once or twice. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I traveled a lot or had to compromise with other people on who gets to use what screen. The thing that’s got me the most excited these days is all the VR mods of classic games that keep coming out. One of my favorite things to do in VR is to finally be able to experience a game I already love from that new perspective.
I’m hyper aware that I’m just a few days into it and totally new to VR, so I’m actually interested as well in how long I feel this way.
I’ll provide updates.
it sucks because after I got my deck I was hoping for a next gren of vr like this but then my resources dried up while concurrently tech components exploded in cost. this was something I was going to get.
Gonna need my keyboard for satisfactory
I understand the appeal, but the discomfort of prolonged headset wearing and the lower detail adds up, idk. But my experience is limited to the index, which is much heavier than the frame
Two monitors is hard to beat. One for satisfactory modeler and one for satisfactory
Edit: there are mods out there to make satisfactory an actual vr game btw
This my initial thought as well: Satisfactory would be challenging without keyboard and mouse.
Satisfactory has controller support, I’ve been playing it on my steamdeck lately
It’s the only way I’ve ever played it for 200+ hours
I’m happy for you, but I’ve found I can’t play building games with a controller. Minecraft and satisfactory are the only two I’ve tried, and it’s horribly inefficient and frustrating, in my experience. Gotta have my kb and mouse.
I do enjoy controllers though. Old school FPS? Sign me up.
Heck I even did HZD on a controller, though I imagine I might’ve done better with a mouse and keyboard, I had more time available with my deck, so that’s what I used.
I started Satisfactory on mouse and keyboard but I have been exclusively controller since starting back up a few months ago. I just don’t think my gameplay is refined enough for me to notice inefficiency.
Mods like infinite zoop mode make it feel pretty easy to me, but I’m just not a very good builder on my best day.
(just curious as I’ve never played with a controller) how does that mod help? Isn’t zoop mode nearly infinite already?
It’s a misleading name in a way. Zoop can go to the horizon on one axis at a time. Infinite zoop allows you to make big areas by zooping both X and Y axes at the same time.
If you didn’t know we also have an active satisfactory community, we’d love to have you!
Awesome setup OP!
Quick PSA to anyone reading, “XR” glasses like the Viture or XREAL offerings paired with an awesome project called breezy-desktop (https://github.com/wheaney/breezy-desktop) also provide an excellent experience, and the glasses can be found for around $300-400. I played a decent amount of STALKER 2 with them and it was great.
+1 for Viture if you’re a little near-sighted, as they have individual knobs for each eye to dial in the crispness. Xreal required inserts to be modified by an optometrist (and still didn’t feel quite right in my case >.< )
I have the original Viture pros and can confirm. I’m decently near sighted at like -3.25 and can reasonably use them without my contacts or personalized lenses.
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Honestly I think it would be hard to use. Even with my relatively slight prescription I had to squint a little to actually see some of the text on the KDE desktop
How are these different from pervert glasses?
Edit: Genuine question, this looks great, but I don’t like the idea of people walking around with cameras on their faces.
No cameras, these are basically just a monitor.
Those offerings are more like monitors strapped to your face - https://youtube.com/watch?v=ha_7cZxqhhE
As BigPotato mentioned, they’re basically two small 1080p120 monitors built into some bulky eye glass/sun glass frames.
There’s no cameras onboard and you can’t actually see through them, though the pros I have let you dim the sun glass effect to see your desk/keyboard.
I also like how they’ve built speakers into the arms of the frames, almost reminds me of the bone conducting headphones.
I really enjoy streaming games to my Frame, but I’m not big on using the controllers for flat games. The Steam Controller + Steam Frame combo is excellent though
The back/underside paddle buttons on the Steam Controller are way better than they are on the Steam Deck in ways that are tough to describe, so I’ve found myself using them a lot. Being able to essentially squeeze to activate my jetpack or reload my gun, depending on which hand, really made it easier for me to get around and engage in combat in Satisfactory.
I think it’s because the “handles” on the controller are quite a bit meatier than the side handles of the Deck. My second and ring finger seem to slot perfectly onto them.
And the bumpers are so much better too. Wish I could mod my deck with controller bumpers…
Huh. My hope for the Frame was that the controllers are decent. I’ve been wanting good controllers where the hands are separate since the Wii introduced the concept to me. I’ve never gamed more comfortably.
I should know by tomorrow, if the shipping estimate was accurate.
That’s definitely my plan for flat games when I get home from the trip I’m on.
Even in the early days with a Vive, I found games like Crypt of the Necrodancer and Hollow Knight to be weirdly immersive in VR mode.
I think it’s the blocking out of the outside world that did it for me, plus who cares about the old screen door effect when it’s pixel graphics?
Iirc, there is also a way to play old emulated games in a made up 1990s bedroom on a CRT in VR, but I can’t remember how.
(And on the topic of emulation, I also wonder if they ever made progress on the emulated Dolphin VR games? Star Fox was a fantastic experience but was still a bit glitchy a decade ago.)
emulated games in a bedroom
That would be EmuVR
I sometimes played games like this with my Quest just so it felt like playing on a gigantic screen. The only thing that sucked was the occasional lag from streaming it.
How is the latency with the Frame? I expect it having it’s own dedicated dongle for streaming makes it super good.
Honestly haven’t had the chance to try it yet. It arrived hours before I was leaving on a trip so all of my impressions have been on the road so far
So it’s just running native inside the headset?
That is also pretty nice. I forgot it could do that for a second lol
Yeah, I’ve got a few games on my laptop that I’m going to try streaming tonight but that will be on my travel router and hotel WiFi so I don’t have high expectations.
Satisfactory runs…satisfactorily on the headset, but it’s not the best experience, and the headset is really chugging.
Alyx locally, on the other hand, was an almost otherworldly experience for me in terms of smoothness and immersion, but again I’m new to VR.
Satisfactory doesn’t have a VR mode? Kind of surprising, VR modes are easy AF to do.
I honestly don’t know if I could handle a jumping 5x stinger in VR. Those things are scary as fuck on a TV screen 10 feet in front of me.
Enable the cat thing then
I beg your pardon
Satisfactory has an accessibility option for people with Arachnophobia which makes the Stingers less scary to look at. Specifically, it turns them into like jpegs of cats.
Oh that’s cool. I’m not arachnophobic, I think they are just really well designed.
But I’m a cat dad and I’m not sure I could shoot at pictures of cats - even in VR where my cats can’t see. They’ll know.
The arachnaphobia mode makes the spiders into 2d cat sprites.
UEVR works with it, and there’s a mod to make the controls more VR native. Still struggling to get that all working on my Linux install, though
I have xreal one pro glasses for my steam deck and it is awesome as hell. There’s a little bit of blurriness if you’re trying to read something away from the middle of the screen though.
It’s a bit confusing to call “Non VR Games” games as “2D Games”. As this is not a virtual reality, maybe we can call them “Reality Games”. /s
It’s a bit confusing
It’s objectively wrong. Satisfactory is played in 3 spacial dimensions, making it a 3D game. Displaying it with a vr headset doesn’t add a dimension, it just changes how you experience that 3D space.
As another example, chess is a 2D game. Whether it’s played on a screen or in VR or with real pieces that take up real 3D space, the game itself is always 2D. If you made a that uses a chess board as one side of a cube, and the same on the other sides, and then use your pieces to navigate what is now a volumetric matrix and not just a grid: now it’s 3D… but also no longer chess. …kinda sounds fun though.
The game logic remains 3D (or 2D depending from which perspective we look). It depends on what the person refers to as “3D”. Gameplay logic is not the only thing that has dimensions, its also the graphics. In example the (modern) Street Fighter games have 3D graphics, but the gameplay is 2D. There are even 3D games with 2D graphics, both are independent dimensions.
VR on the other hand has nothing to do with how the game is played or what type of graphics it has. VR is not about how many dimensions the game has, but how the dimensions are experienced. Almost like a perspective: Top down, Third person, First person, VR… However, I understand what people mean by 2D in context of talking about it as an opposite to VR. Even if its not entirely “correct”, we know what is meant with. The problem is, there is no widely accepted and known way to refer it to as “Non VR” other than “Non VR”. I feel like we need an universally accepted term for this.
But how would we call it? PR: Physical Reality?
What’s wrong with “non VR”? It’s concise, and specific enough that it doesn’t overlap with other concepts in the context of gaming. 2D and 3D both already have an established meaning: both can be experienced with or without VR.
…in any case, whatever catches on for “non VR” (to include “non VR”) is kinda moot: it just shouldn’t be term that’s already established in this context, or we’ll get confusing loops like “2D games are best experienced in 2D” or conflation of VR with 3D and vice versa.
Logically speaking nothing is wrong with “Non VR”. I just like to have dedicated words for it, other than a “boolean” logic. It’s just a way of how to think about things. In example you don’t say that you walk with a Non Car, if that makes sense what I mean. It also makes searching the web or forums or whatever easier and avoids “VR vs Non VR” like phrases. I personally don’t have a good idea how to name, so maybe nothing else will catch on. My initial response here was more of a joke, but the underlying “problem” is “real” to me.
Flat 3d.
Pancake games.
Flat games.
I’m not sure how common the term is but I like the “flat screen game”.
Steam Frames are shipped already?
I may have been one of the earlier lottery windows but I got mine Friday after getting a shipping notice on Thursday.
Dang
Mine shipped and is supposed to arrive tomorrow 🤞 (Canada)
I use my psvr headset the same way. Great big 80-inch-looking screen in my face is great. I wouldn’t want to use it for anything other than gaming or watching stuff, even if I could, but I guess I can sort of see the appeal… I wonder how bad that would be for your eyes. Probably very; we aren’t meant to have screens that close to our eyes, and I highly doubt long-term heavy use has been studied for safety.
Vr makes me wildly motion sick though, so thats about the only thing I can do with it comfortably right now (better quality headsets have less problem, that one is just really bad because its one of the first generations of vr). At least until I figure out ways to desensitize. Which may never happen.
Hm, your eyes are focusing on however far away your virtual screen is, though. So I’d say it is just as bad as looking at a screen normally. But it feels kind of “wrong”, I’m with you on that.
