Power consumption is a massive reason to really not do that. Its cheap for a reason, its takes a shitload of power to be shit and you will pay more in energy than you save in hardware unless its only powered on for short periods of time - a server typically isn’t.
This is actually something that applies to cheap products too. Was in Asda a little while ago and saw 2 LED bulbs with the same lumen rating. Cheaper one used 3w more and you only saved £1. Running it for 8 hours a day for a year would cost double that saving in electricity. For a server you are looking at almost £2 per watt each year. Does that ewaste look so good to you now?
Some things are absolutely worth getting second hand, but you really should be careful considering the power cost as well.
Quick edit: If you don’t need it running 24/7, consider something like AWS too. I love selfhosting but if its not running much it might be cheaper to not bother buying hardware.
Aren’t laptops typically very energy efficient? Low consumption converts to high battery life, which is a priority for laptop hardware.
Some of them consume less than 10W.
I’m not taking electronics advice from someone who uses the term lappies.
Where I’m from those were 10$ and legal in Quebec.
Yes actually still sounds good. Raspberry Pis actually have quite high power draw compared to the performance they give. Like sure the number might be smallish but the performance they give and functionality they have is awful compared to even a mini PC which use similar power. Mini PCs btw are actually one of the best options in performance per watt and can still be cheap, plus they have upgradable RAM and storage. A Mac mini is more expensive but will thrash everything else in efficiency and performance per watt, although non-upgradable. Even slightly older laptops will only draw tens of watts when fully charged, vs a desktop or proper server that could pull 100W even at idle in some cases. Older laptops tended to be more upgradable too.
Please be specific rather than referring to ‘raspberry pis’ together. Different models have way different characteristics.
Are any of them actually that good in efficiency though? Like a Pi 5 is probably the best in performance per watt, but it also has the highest power consumption. Realistically you wouldn’t self host on anything older than a Pi 4 anyway.
I can self host what I want on a pi zero. But, I do have some 30 years of experience so can probably do things some won’t understand / bother with.
Bro please. I understand you can host very small stuff on less powerful Pis. I used to host some stuff on a Raspberry Pi model b myself. Stop tooting your own horn. You couldn’t however host all the stuff I use or even most home labbers use on a Pi zero with modern software. I doubt it could run Jellyfin, an *arr stack, ollama, nextcloud, etc all at the same time. Probably you would also have to drop using containers which would be less secure and easy to deploy.
What’s the performance per watt of a Pi Zero anyway? I am sure it’s low power draw but I doubt it’s actually efficient.
See here’s the thing. Why would anyone want to host ALL the stuff on one pi? That is not what they were designed for. Ollama on a pi? Are you out of your mind? I’d run the biggest model I can on a modern gpu not some crappy old computer or pi…Right tool, right job. And why is dropping containers “less secure”? Do you mean “less cool”? Less easy to deploy? But you’re not deploying it, you’re installing it. You sound like a complete newb which is fine, but just take a step back from things and get some more experience. A pi is a tool for a purpose, not the end all. Using an old laptop is not going to save the world and arguing that it’s just better than a pi (or similar alternative) is just dumb. Use a laptop for all I care, I’m not the boss of you.
As for an arr stack, I’m really disappointed with the software and don’t use it and those who do have way too much time to set it up, and then make use of it!
There’s lots of ways to make existing hardware more efficient at the cost of performance. Under-volting the CPU and RAM (or just putting them in “efficiency” mode) can probably save more electricity than you lose in generational improvements. Considering how much more powerful PCs are compared to SBCs, you’d probably still have better performance than an SBC. Also, a more powerful CPU that takes double the power but as a result can idle for more than 50% of the time would be more efficient than a less powerful CPU never idling.
There’s a lot of other variables (like idle power draw, efficiency at various power levels, idle latency, etc), but in general I think your statement would be inaccurate at least 60% of the time.
Oh I am not saying specifically get a raspberry pi, personally looking at a bee-link N150 mini PC. It isn’t even that much more expensive than the 16GB raspberry pi and as its x86 I can just run normal debian installs in proxmox.
The post is talking about RPis and other SBCs. Mini PCs are in a whole different category.
Yeah, but this is about self hosting and it’s costs, so the comparison is relevant.
Yes it’s relevant. I have been one of the people making it. However they didn’t specificy what they were actually comparing in their first comment. So it ends up they are saying something false. Your average laptop could easily beat a raspberry pi in performance per watt.
This is generally not true. If you are using your laptop as a home server chances are it’s going to be idling 99% of the time and laptops are generally pretty good in terms of idle power draw if you manage to disable the screen (or just disconnect it, take it off and find a way to repurpose it)
And in terms of environmental impact saving a laptop from landfill is definitely better since the majority of a computers impact is from the co2 emmissions from the manufacturing process. And this isn’t taking into account the likely ethical considerations such as supporting terrible mining practices for resources like cobalt.
This is generally not true. A small server running on an old pi when idling will have hardly any draw. It will cost literally pennies to run for the whole year.
A rasperry pi idles at about 2 watts vs a laptop that idles at about 4 watts. At $0.30/kwh (a very high price for electricity) you would save 5 dollars per year on electricity. This laptop trades blows with the rasperry pi and costs half the price (55$ aud vs over 200$ aud for a brand new pi 5) Even this second hand one costs 110$ aud which is twice the cost. With that cost of electricity it would take 11 years in order to break even. And that’s only if you consider monetary cost and not environmental cost.
But I MUST CONSUME MORE ELECTRONICS
That’s not the point here. People probably do not need a pi 5. There are many other pi devices (and similar boards) with significantly less draw.
Are you living on a space station? What is this shitload of power? A whole 60 watts? Are you rationing AA batteries to run your household?
What is it with the bullshit fanciful rationalizations people come up with to consume consume consume?
And that’s 60W while charging. In idle with the screen off, low end laptops often consume as little as 2-3W. Which is not far off from a pi.
But I want to be cool and awesome! I want to constantly re-learn how to do basic things over and over because TECHNOLOGY!!!
https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23718473&cid=65450499
And I think China is evil and dumb… but I click “add to cart” on aliexpress in my sleep!
But I am deeply worried about totally renewable energy consumption by buying an endless stream of disposable baubles!
(Read above in some kind of sarcastic tone)
Are you living on a space station? What is this shitload of power?
Some of us live off-grid and make every Watt-hour we consume. So it may be that one man’s fanciful bullshit is another man’s daily life. For context, this is my 2,461st day offgrid.
A whole 60 watts?
Over the last 30 days I’ve averaged 2.01kWh/day, or an average constant consumption of 84w. All in. And that’s on the high end for folks in similar use cases. In this scenario adding in another 60w would be significant (ie, impossible for my rig during winter months).
As Sesame Street taught showed us it’s a matter of perspective.
Um if you’re living with computers are you really „off the grid“ computers require the grid to be manufactured. If you’re off the grid because you worry about the way the worlds going and you think you’ll need to be off the grid to survive I wouldn’t make having access to computers part of the plan.
60w is like £120 a year, these costs add up to the point that low spec servers pretty much always cost more in energy than hardware. Of course it also depends on where you live and your energy rates.
You could buy a 20 year old server that is going to use 800w, or you could buy a mini PC that is probably more powerful and uses like 10-20w.
Then again, I used to live somewhere that energy was included in the rent so short of starting a bitcoin farm usage wouldn’t really get noticed too much. In that case it would make sense to just go cheap hardware.
I’m glad I don’t have these addictions people seem to have. “I need a computer to measure how much water my toilet uses!” “I need a computer in my refrigerator!” etc
We’ve passed the useful stage of computing, we are now in the “personal issues” phase.
A good “rule of thumb” to remember: if your electricity rates average (somewhere near) $0.11/kWh you can take the average power draw of a device in watts and that is equal to what it will cost to run that device 24-7 for 365 days.
So, if that cheap PC draws 50W more than an alternate solution, it’s costing you $50 more per year to use it.
Some tasks are beyond any RasPi, but it’s well worth evaluating if something like an N100 fanless mini-PC can handle it instead of loading up some Core i7 rig that’s going to cost more to run in the first year than the N100 costs to buy.
Your energy is clearly a lot cheaper than mine then.
Well, the idea scales, if your energy is 0.33 Euro per kWh take the watts x 3 and that’s your annual running cost.
these shitty win8 laptops are surprisingly low power and efficient though.
Power consumption is a massive reason to really not do that. Its cheap for a reason, its takes a shitload of power to be shit and you will pay more in energy than you save in hardware unless its only powered on for short periods of time
Ewaste computers actually tend to be on par if not better than an RPi in power consumption these days. It might feel like a RPi should be more efficient given the size and USB power connector, but modern Pis consume a solid 10-20w while in use which is more or similar to most miniPCs (they idle at single digit watts now and can “race to sleep” more effectively than a Pi) while costing about the same and the Pi is far less upgradeable
That depends if the mini-PC is something in the Celeron / N100 family, or the Core i5/i7 family.
Should see an old 6th gen i5 mini PC on a power monitor. It’s basically nothing!
Yeah, they’ve reversed that trend for sure.
lowendtalk, hella cheap vps with plenty of resources for most self hosted apps, the issue with it is usually storage space but there are ways around that connecting your drives from elsewhere
Warning tho, hella shills too but you could literally make a post asking if certain companies on the site that have active threads are scams and get valid responses that don’t get removed or anything so thats nice, like half of the ones I looked at were giving less resources than they claimed
I mostly agree, and did the same with my second gen lab build - instead of shiny new NUCs like I had used round 1, I bought old off lease Dell Xeon boxes. SO MANY PROS -
- Got them up to 14c/28t each
- They can take GPUs and actually do heavy transcoding/ML work
- They can take up to like, 128GB of memory, which is GREAT when they’re all hypervisors
The downsides can’t be denied though -
- Even without the GPUs and beefed up CPUs, they are power hogs - the CPU alone uses more than an ENTIRE NUC
- They run HOT
- They run LOUD
The same holds true for off-lease SFF stuff, Lenovo and the likes …
So while reuse/repurpose is absolutely of the utmost importance, no question - when it comes to technology and how quickly it advances and miniaturizes, a thorough and logical pros/cons list is often required.
I’d add another option though - if you do need what a Pi brings to the table - do you really need a shiny new Pi 5? Is it possible a used Pi 3 or Pi 4 would do the trick, and check the reuse box?
The power aspect is a lot bigger of a factor than I would have thought. I had an old computer I was going to use as a server for Foundry that I could keep up all the time, but when I measured its wattage and did the math, it would cost me $20 a month to keep on. A pi costs like $2 to keep running, so it paid for itself pretty quick
RPis aren’t energy efficient either. Any situation where you are thinking of putting more than one of them in a cluster you should just buy mini PCs instead.
You lose the I/O and power efficiency is no comparison. You can get better power efficiency and sometimes some I/O with an old router and OpenWRT, but you’ll be in the class of a Beagle Bone and a much harder learning curve. I’ve never managed to get a sensor or peripheral working on some old laptop’s SPI or I2C buses like how easy it is on a Rπ.
New low end chromebooks are much better for this anyway, an intel N4000 will consume just 8 watts at its peak and it’s even supported by Windows 11, and they are usable if you put Linux on them
You can get an esp32 or whatever and have io
Or get a used thin client (e. g. HP T620, T630, T640 or Dell Wyse 5070). Cost: ~40-100$. Biggest advantage: Passive cooling, i. e. they’re absolutely quiet.
Wanna get something like this and a large SSD going forward. Make a silent NAS out of it, and have it in my bedroom without issues.
I have a Wyse 5010. Be careful with your SSD plans. Mine had an mSATA SSD. Luckily, after removing the chassis of a SATA SSD, and only keeping the board, it could fit in there.
Appreciate the warning!
I had the accounting self hosted web app on it until I was too lazy for accounting and now I am in so called hot water and must make bunch of shit up using mathematical apparatus
But it worked really well for a year or so
Add use of gpio to reasons to use pie.
While gpio adaptors are available for pc. The software architecture is not as well rounded and documented.
So for any complex hardware project development. Gpio based SBCs are often essential.
So space, low power and gpio development.
Otherwise yep old laptop or even desktop can be cheaper and more able.
But overall. The wide software support and documentation for hardware connectivity is a bloody good reason to keep pie supported.
I’m setting 2 up to control the hot water and solar dump system on my shared little boat. As I want to link 12v Lifepo4 batt charging with the solar dump and visually impaired control for AC and diesel heating of the water.
Pies really are the best option to play with. While low power and easy to design a unique low vision interface.
Also UK boat safty. Is issuing warning about permanently connected li ion batts on boats. So it is likely setting up a laptop to manage this while not on the boat. Will be banned in the near future.
Only an issue for UK boating but worth considering the risks of leaving laptops to run when not observed.
I bet you could instead use an ESP32 for GPIO and just connect it remotely to whatever Pi alternative you use (if needed at all). Turning some switches on and off while monitoring input values doesn’t sound very computationally intensive.
Yep that can work. But ignores all the well documented and supported development community comments I pointed to while also indicating other options exist.
As for.
Turning some switches on and off while monitoring input values doesn’t sound very computationally intensive.
You realise IO wise that describes your keyboard and mouse interaction on the most powerful gaming PCs.
It’s what you do with the results that matters.
GPIO supports a fair bit more then the on and off input and output. It’s slow compared to other systems. But has multiple serial protocols of differing types. Simple GUI displays can also be run via gpio connections. Low Res Lidar devices are available connected via the spi connections with all the data processed on that host PC.
So no gpio use can require all levels of processing power post connection. It is after all designed for experimentation and prototyping.
For my project. You clost to correct. I just use a simple GUI displays with xorg. So a pie 0 is plenty. And way lower power then the other options. It links to a pwm controller to power 2 12v 200w water tank heaters a relay for a 750w AC heater. Bluetooth connection to a BMS and solar MPPT. While operating multiple temp sensors measuring at different levels. And warning of legionaries risk. If the tank has not been over 65c in 14 days (actually 10 days but I’m over careful given the health status of my brother and I).
So much less then the tiny Pie 0 would not be able to cope but mainly due to the need for the vision impaired interface. Speaking functions dose not take much. But doing so without being unusably slow is about the limit of a pie 0.
Any photos of the boat and setup?
ATM the boat is being rebuilt inside. Replacing everything.
So the system is in bits. Hidden in the engine bay.
I have old pics of the boat before we regilt all the electrics etc. if it’s the shape etc your interested in.
If your a Brit who knows the canals. Think small sprinter but with a flat hull. It’s not actually a springer but same steel standards etc.
Right? I made the realization a while ago that refurbished mini PCs are a way better fit for most of my homelab needs.
Sure, if power consumption is your #1 priority then you’d want some ARM solution. But for my use cases, I’ve found myself fighting with software support and the relatively low computational power of even the newer RPis.
Also, T-series Intel chips (the low power ones) have pretty good idle power consumption and don’t spin up the fan too much given their lower power. And a lot of uses cases require sticking a fan and heat sinks on an RPi so you lose the quietness benefit.
Also also, you (still?) need proprietary blobs to use a bunch of the hardware on RPis. You can go full open source on a regular old PC.
It’s not just the size constraint. The power usage is significant…
If you have the lid closed, you’re looking at 3 to 15 watts to have a laptop running in the background doing some basic server shit.
Maybe a little more under high load, but those are going to be intermittent and not constant.
I’m just saying it’s not that much more electricity usage, and the recycling more than offsets the CO2.
If you have the lid closed, you’re looking at 3 to 15 watts to have a laptop running in the background doing some basic server shit.
Not all laptops make effective use of power with the lid closed, sadly. Not saying this as a correction, but for others to know that they need to make sure these settings are available in the bios of the system they are buying.
Laptop performance when closed is quite variable, but depending on where you live, each 10W of idle consumption 24/7/365 could cost you somewhere around $20/yr (assumes @$0.20/kWh, YMMV). This isn’t overwhelming on it’s own, but it is “cost difference between a junked laptop and a Raspberry Pi” kinda money.
And you are often paying 140-200 for a pi nowadays to make it have the same usability as a laptop (pi, power supply, sata hat, data drive because SD cards simply fail after a while under server IO) while you can get cheap used laptops for 0-100.
So unless you are running it for more than half a decade (which rarely happens with selfhosters for a main server), you are probably spending more in total on the pi.
I think SD card failure rates are way overblown if you’re buying from reputable manufacturers (Sandisk, Samsung). I’m sure they do occasionally fail, but I’ve never experienced one.
You’re right, for really intensive tasks the costs can climb, but I see people asking for ideas for what to do with a junk laptop and the top suggestion is always something like pi-hole or a bookmark manager that could run on a potato.
Like with most things in life, it depends.
I used to think so too, but my pi-hole just died the other week after four years of uptime. Couldn’t work it out, finally pulled the SD card out to reinstall the OS and found my laptop wouldn’t recognise it.
Made me glad I don’t run my mailserver on a Pi anymore!
I join you, I used to change SD card and USB disk every 1-2 year. I bought a nas 3 year ago didn’t need to change disk yet.
I have a high fail rate with Samsung SD cards. Oddly the cheap-o no name ones haven’t failed yet.
Laptops are not generally designed to run like that with a closed lid. Heat dissipation is designed around the idea the laptop is open and some of it is through the keyboard surface. The lid closed would change that.
Systems can of course be setup to power off the display but for server/service uses open laptops may not be efficient space wise.
Having said that if the scenario is low power use the heat dissipation may not be a major issue. But if there is an unremovable battery i’d still be concerned about heat dissipation with the lid closed and even just the battery itself regardless of heat dissipiation.
really depends on the laptop. a lot of laptops exhaust off the side.
Just remove the lid entirely.
Not so sure about the last part. It takes ehhh about 3kg of c02 to produce 1 Watt for a year. Carbon footprint to build a laptop is about 200kg or so, but you’re not offsetting one of those you’re offsetting the raspberry PI you WOULD have bought which is just a small fraction of that. After a year or 2 you’ve almost certainly burned through your c02 savings if it’s on all the time.
A raspberry pi is not as efficient as people are claiming. They need up to 25W PSU for a reason. Laptops can idle lower than that certainly. Something like a MacBook Air M1 would idle in single digit territory, as would any netbook basically ever made. Only really high performance or older laptops have idle power draw issues since battery life is a major selling point of a laptop. Said laptop is probably also faster than a raspberry pi. The people building Pi clusters are really not doing themselves any favors with power efficiency.
Nah no way does the average ewaste tier laptop use less power than a raspberry pi for any given task. The power consumption floor for a laptop may be lower than the rpi ceiling but that’s not a fair comparison
Benchmark it and tell me. The truth is that most RPis are made using older process nodes to reduce costs. Laptops are often made using the best avaliable process node and core design. A modern raspberry pi 5 uses a 16nm processor with Cortex-A76 design from 2018. A laptop in 2015 would be using 14nm Broadwell processors from Intel. This was a time when 15W U series processors were gaining popularity, so sustained load power consumption is quite low. A 2015 laptop is 10 years old, and wouldn’t run Windows 11, so will be ewaste this year. Same with a lot of 8 year old machines actually.
Not quite. Unless the system has pretty advanced power management and is using very recent technology with high density, it’s unlikely that an x64 chipset will use less power than a comparably powered arm64 chipset. Not just the processor, but the smaller board is actually a power saver and allows it to generate less heat meaning both less power wasted and dissipated as heat as well as less power needed for fans to properly dissipate the heat. I’ve never seen a laptop use 3W at idle when considering the whole device, maybe just the CPU, but not if you include the rest of the components like RAM and disks and power supply. And especially true in a laptop that is old enough that it’s being recycled. Heck, the power supply and charger alone might be using 3W at idle with full battery.
With a raspberry pi 4, the typical power usage for the 2GB RAM model is 5W under load for the whole device and about half that for idle. Add a couple of watts for the extra memory and wider bus on the 8GB model and other things can add to that, but that’s mostly accurate. The pi 5 is a little more and the 3 is a little less. Of course, the efficiency of the laptop at full load might end up being better than a comparable number of raspberry pis it would take to do the same amount if work, but comparing a single pi or any other reputable arm-based, single board computer to a single laptop at idle is always going to be that way.
Battery charging circuits don’t operate continuously when the device is charged. Pi also still needs a PSU, typically a phone charger, and for a server application would need an SSD or HDD in most cases. SD cards have lower performance, write endurance, and capacity after all. A single raspberry pi couldn’t match even a somewhat old laptop in performance. In terms of actual efficiency (performance per watt) Pis don’t do that well as they are using cheap processors made using old core designs and even older process nodes. Even the latest Pi 5 uses a 16nm process node with a core design from 2018. A 10 year old laptop might have 14nm process node which would be better. This means that a laptop would have more performance, so even if it had more power consumption at peak it could still end up with significantly better performance per watt, and that extra performance allows it to idle more often as it spends less time processing requests.
Of course the ultimate in performance per watt is always going to be a modern high power server or an Apple Silicon device. Mini PCs can also do well for home use, and are much lower power so better suited to less demanding usage, and have the best performance per watt for consumer devices. The M4 Mac Mini for example is pretty much best in class in performance per watt, and low power consumption at the same time.
Battery circuits come on enough to be a load that needs to be considered and will show up if you measure load on the device vs load consumed by the components connected to the power supply. In terms of low power devices, it is significant, though not the primary concern. But compared to the pi PSU, the charger not to mention the battery and internal PSU of a laptop, consume way more power and produce way more heat.
All of the rest assumes needing always on, heavy load processing which isn’t what the post I replied to was talking about. I was specifically replying to idle power load. And in my case, even with a bunch of self hosted applications, most of the time my servers are idling. If I was running a virtualization farm or something that was always under heavy load, then yes, as I mentioned, a single board server isn’t ideal.
As for disks, I don’t use SSDs on my pis except one that actually does a lot of local data processing. Everything else runs in memory and stores persistent data on my NAS, including logging. Virtual memory/swap is disabled on all and things that need temporary storage/cache of small amounts of data is cached on RAM disks where applications can’t be configured to not use disk caching. The only need for the SD card is for boot and some minimal IO needed for local OS operation. I have a Raspberry Pi 3 B i got about 8 or 9 years or so ago with the same SD card in it.
They aren’t what I use as a database server, obviously, but they are extremely low power compared to what an old laptop would need and work great for things like pihole, and other network applications as well as being a part if my home kubernetes cluster and run the majority of the cluster’s processes on demand.
Fake news. Modern RPis need up to 25W PSU. Even old laptops could idle lower than that, as otherwise they wouldn’t be able to get significant battery life. Turning off the screen will also really lower their power consumption.
You’re comparing a laptop at idle to the power supply for a pi that needs to power it at full load plus overhead and inefficiencies. That’s like comparing apples to an orange tree.
I mean sure. If you want to compare actual efficiency then performance per watt is the metric. Here a laptop would easily win as it has higher performance for similar power. The TDP of a U class processor is only 15W normally. It would obviously help to disable things like Turbo Boost as well. Said laptop having more performance wouldn’t need to stay at high power states for as long as the Pi either as it takes less time to process requests. Returning back to idle faster is a big advantage.
Get them from where? I always read about these basically-free computers but have yet to see one
Facebook marketplace, kjiji, etc
Everyone here thinks their shit tier 2018 laptop is made of gold or something.
‘Gaming laptop, only used occasionally. Been sitting around for a while because my kid’s got a new hobby. £1,200 no offers. I know what I’ve got’
The pictured laptop has a Centrino sticker on it and looks like it’s been used to dig a garden
Same here in México, a lot of people think their dual core Intel from 2011 (and even older than that) is still worth more than +$100USD. Even worse, companies usually want to resell devices to recover some of the cost, so even that option is kind of expensive. I’m waiting for some friends that can buy company devices for cheap so they can resell them to me for cheap too lol
Pawn shop I would say but they are expensive too… Their is some carricatibe structure which refurbish computers and sell them gor dirt cheap. 20 Buck per tower. But that crapy computers.
Yep. My FB Marketplace is 75% crackheads flogging off stuff they stole from shops/actual tax payers/their neighbours/ the train, 10% delusional idiots with shit that isn’t worth half of their asking price, 10% scammers, and 5% not shit listings.
I wouldn’t touch Facebook with a 10’ ethernet cable. Haven’t heard of kjiji, I’ll have to check it out.
Haven’t heard of kjiji, I’ll have to check it out.
It’s essentially Craigslist, but in Canada.
Craigslist doesn’t really have a user base here.
Except in Vancouver. It’s a Craigslist city.
Interesting… I wonder why?
You’re missing out, Facebook marketplace is THE place to buy local secondhand goods for dirt cheap without getting scammed. You do need an account but you don’t need to install anything, and the payments are not done through FB
Did someone fall asleep on the keyboard when they came up with kjiji?
I think it’s secretly Khajiit’s new marketplace for wares if you have the coin
I know its not the most ideal place, but FB marketplace where I live has lots of old PCs/Laptops for under 50 eur. I would probably start there personally.
Sometimes you can find them on eBay.
I go to Ebay and sort by distance. It’s like Craigslist but they send it to you!
I do e-scooter mechanical stuff, I always have a bid war with the local franchisee scooter shop nearby fighting for the scooters. I know its them, so I try to raise the bids for them as much as possible to fuck them around.
We have bins around our city for people to drop electronics off for recycling. I’ve taken a few laptops from there. You’re not supposed to, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
One I gave to my buddy who needed something just for emails and web browsing and whatnot, one is running a server, and a couple more went back in to the bin because they were actually broken, but I took the hard drives for the server machine. I have one on a self ready in case the server machine dies so I haven’t gone looking for any new ones in a while.
eBay, work, friends/family, friendly ask of your work’s IT person, or just call up the local recycling/ecycling company and ask
Where are these cheap e waste laptops with gpio and actually low power?
No gpio but old centrino laptops make excellent low power servers. My primary server was a first gen centrino from 2011 up until recently and I think it only used 12w idle after putting a SSD in there. Had it’s own UPS built in.
Digging through e-waste bins is one of my hobbies.
What kind of place do you go to to find these things? Sometimes I get really lucky (see my post history about my wonderful new printer), but if I could increase my odds that would be cool.
I’m just lucky enough to have one at my apartment building, and very wasteful neighbors.
Back when I lived in a (quite nice) apartment building I was constantly surprised at the things people threw out. Perfectly good furniture but also stuff like perfectly functional printers, artwork, computer cases…
If you go near college housing there’s usually a given day of the year (either moving day or an official cleanup day) when tons of people put out stuff they don’t want to bother with keeping/moving. It’s Hippie Christmas baby!
any luck with gpio and 5W power usage so far?
Worth noting pie 4 and 5 no longer recommend 5w PSU. And tend to fail if anything is drawing on the USB.
No, but I did get an Xbox that only needed a power cable.
I think 5W probably can’t be achieved, maybe with chromebook-like hardware, but I guess GPIO could be solved with a USB accessory
in my opinion the bigger problem is the fire hazard of an unsupervised charger. I have seen enough that runs super hot, and even if it doesn’t, I just can’t trust them.
Somebody already asked, but what are good locations to do this? Do you ever get harassed by property owners or law enforcement?
I’m in an apartment building, so I just browse the one here whenever I take the trash out. I don’t think anyone has noticed, or they’ve elected to mind their own business if they have.
There’s so much stuff that could still be used that it honestly isn’t funny, and that’s just in my own bin. How much more is being wasted across the country? But at least it’s in the recycling and not the trash, so that’s something, I guess.
There are usb gpio devices which can fulfill the connectivity bit. Pretty sure you are sol with the 5w though 😊
The Raspberry Pi Zero in USB gadget mode can be used for GPIO. If you don’t want to setup gadget mode, get Pi Zero W.
The market is about to be flooded with them with Windows 10 going EoL in October.
About to be? The bottom has been falling out for desktops and laptops on processors not on Microsoft’s supported list for the last year or more. I’ve seen roughly the same system go from ~$200+ down to under $100 on the last year based on eBay pricing alone
l a p p i e s
That word made me hear the whole thing in an Australian accent.
True, but we don’t really say landfill, rather “tip”… So…
Strong Bad vibes
The power constraints are more important to most than the size constraints honestly.
Yeah, my pi sips energy very sparingly. Even an old laptop is going to be drawing more just to power itself, never mind what I run on it.
That said, pis are a poor value proposition nowadays and there are better options for the same use case
Oh absolutely, it really upsets me that they never dropped the prices down after covid supply issues were resolved. They were really proud of being accessible price-wise once upon a time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What are the better options?
Pis have great software support so for GPIO experimentation it’s so useful.
There is quite a range of devices out there now with varying capabilites. Things like the Onion Omega2+, Oranage Pi, and more.
Raspberry Pi also remains good. While the Pi5 is expensive and more powerful - raspberry pi also makes the Pi Zero boards which are cheaper less capable boards which are closer to what the original raspberry Pi was but newer hardware.
I’d say the Pi5 is a heading more towards a full PC like device (hence the comparisons to cost and capability minipcs pepple are making in thia thread). But there remain plenty of lower spec machines out there now similar to the original cheap Raspberry Pi concept. And we’ve had high inflation recently - to some extent the cost perception avtually reflects money being worth less than it was and buying less for $10 or $20.
Yeah, the Pi moving to full computer thing is weird because the SD card is still a massive bottleneck on normal day-to-day usage.
Not the person you’re asking but personally I use Jetson nano for some work stuff (and when I upgrade the “old” one is mine), odroid I’ve used for some misc creations and testing, and I’m personally looking forward to trying the radxa x4 as an htpc.
What I am really excited about right now is tossing my recently acquired spare jetson nano on a drone, right now I’m setting it up to walk around with it and test CV before it gets mounted up on the drone.
Will you use a separate flight controller chip or try to do it all on board?
Going separate for now, maybe later I’ll go for all on the same
Not super familiar with the gpio side of things, and I also haven’t dug that deep into the space lately since I already own my rpi and it works for me so take all this with a pinch of salt, but I found some options that seem reasonable
- Libre Computer Le Potato
- Orange Pi Zero 2
- Radxa Zero
- NanoPi R2S
- Banana Pi M2 Zero
It’s been a while but I remember Orange Pi having terrible support? I haven’t heard of the others.
Whereas the RPi has the amazing compute module if you need it too.
Sometimes paying more is better.
Oh, for sure. It depends what you need it for. A lot of people just want a pi for something like a pihole or a stats dashboard of some kind (that’s my use case, anyway). You get what you pay for and sometimes you’ve gotta pay for what you wanna get.
I have one of those 8.1 laptops - I LITERALLY fished it out of a dumpster.
Also, Raspberry Pi first got popular because of the size and cost. Now it’s popular because it’s popular. Not hating on them, I think they’re cool, but they’re not cheap any more. Especially with the scalping.
Getting x86_64 based systems is going to mean much less headache. Unless you truly truly need the size I wouldn’t consider getting a Pi or other SBC. Just go to literally any used marketplace (Facebook, Craigslist, etc) and get anything.
That’s only true for the high-end Pi 5. Lower-powered models like the zero 2 are still cheap, and they’re a lot easier to find than a few years ago.
Which part? Because the “it’s not x86” is even more annoying to deal with on Pi Zero lol.
but they’re not cheap any more
People say this, but they really are still cheap.
The original Raspberry Pi Model B launched for £22 in 2012. The entry level Raspberry Pi 5 is £46, but adjusted for inflation that’s only £32 in 2012 money. So only £10 more expensive in real terms.
Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W is only £14.40, which is only £10 in 2012 money. Compare this to the original Raspberry Pi Model A, which launched for £16.
People look at the headline cost of the high end RPi 5s (£115 for the 16GB model, £76 for the 8GB), but fail to recognise that there was nothing comparable to these in the Raspberry Pi lineup before, and these are not the only models in the Raspberry Pi lineup now.
There was the supply shortage price spike, they really were stupid expensive then if you supported the hoarder/scalpers.
Since that has cleared… most of the Pi price increases (in inflation adjusted dollars) can be attributed to improved features like more RAM, or people acknowledging that having a good dedicated $20 power supply is preferable to dealing with the flakiness of that old phone charger you found under the bed.
10£ more, or 50% more expensive?
Don’t like the expensive version? Get a Zero 2 W which outspecs the original by a wide margin.
Sure, but the specs aren’t directly comparable.
They also still manufacture the RPi 4, which starts at £33- which is £23 in 2012 money.
Inflation adjustment doesn’t really tell the whole story though, it’s not like salaries have gone up by the same amount. Regardless, I don’t like dealing with the Zero unless I specifically need something that tiny. It’s just too annoying. Don’t get me wrong! They’re cool! I’m just saying unless I really need a Pi Zero I wouldn’t wanna work with one. I’d rather work with x86_64 than Arm. Like even just getting Java working was really tricky on Zero. Much like a microcontroller has limitations for what you can run on them but they have other benefits, Zeros aren’t really general purpose.
So yeah, dirt cheap used laptop for general purpose server beats out dirt cheap Pi in my book.
Pi is popular with me because it’s time efficient. Meaning: when I am trying to get it to do something, it takes less of my time to make the thing actually happen on Pi hardware as compared with most of the other small / embedded alternatives. Notable recent exception: ESPHome on ESP32 hardware, but even there the more limited variation of Raspberry hardware makes it similar to those fruity phones, MP3 players and computers - since there are a limited number of variations, you can usually find information specific to EXACTLY your setup, instead of having to infer from something almost the same, but figure out little wrinkles here and there due to differences between what you are working with and what you are reading about on the internet.
A RPi is going to be smaller, quieter, and 10x more energy efficient though…
There are probably a dozen things you can do to save energy on orders of magnitude higher than using a pi.
Then do them. It’s still not going to decrease the energy use of your server.
Like: using the pi to manage your HVAC more efficiently.
Why use a pi instead of a microcontroller?
At the HVAC control level it would be a Pico - for the development / maintenance time efficiency: I know how the tools work, I know the community support is there, the hardware is easy to find and available relatively reliably, although ESPHome on the ESP micro-controllers is pretty good too.
