• renzev@lemmy.world
    3·
    21 hours ago

    One of my friends spent like a month distrohopping just to find a debian-based distro that fits these two criteria:

    • First-class support for KDE

    • Isn’t broken all the time

    Ubuntu fails both. KDE Neon excels on the first one, but fails harder than ubuntu on the second one. Kubuntu as well. Debian has horridly outdated packages, and he refuses to use nix/flatpak. Tuxedo OS is obscure and broken. Mint is great, but installing KDE takes some effort.

    He finally settled on Ubuntu Server with the native KDE package. Still has to do some weird incantations to banish snap tho.

    How did things get this bad?

      • renzev@lemmy.world
        1·
        12 hours ago

        You are about to do something potentially harmful.
        To continue type in the phrase ‘Yes, do as I say!’

        But speaking seriously, I think he tried it for a while and didn’t like it either… not sure why specifically tho, I’ll ask him

    • Rolling Resistance@lemmy.world
      2·
      20 hours ago

      When I used Mint, it felt like packages are outdated just like on Debian (based on Ubuntu LTS + needs time to rebase onto a new one).

  • superkret@feddit.org
    20·
    2 days ago

    8.10 was the last good Ubuntu. (It also had the best default wallpaper ever)

    If you look at the “improvements” in every release since, you’ll notice that shit like they do currently isn’t an accident:

    9.04 integrated web services into the main user interface.
    9.10 integrated Ubuntu One (Ubuntu’s OneDrive, upgradable for money) by default and introduced the slooooow Ubuntu Software Center
    10.04 integrated an interface to post on social media
    10.10 added app purchases in the Software Center
    11.04 made Unity the default
    11.10 removed Gnome as fallback to Unity
    12.04 introduced the buggy HUD
    12.10 added the famous Amazon ad lense to it by default

    and it goes on like this…

  • originaltnavn@lemm.ee
    401·
    3 days ago

    This is literally the reason why I switched over to Debian. At least back then, snaps wouldn’t work if the home folders were not under /home/<username>, breaking all computers on the system I helped run.

    • dan@upvote.au
      191·
      3 days ago

      At least back then, snaps wouldn’t work if the home folders were not under /home/<username>,

      Do you mean that it literally had /home/ hard-coded instead of using $HOME? That’s crazy if so.

  • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
    271·
    3 days ago

    Installed ubuntu on an rpi and firefox there ran snap. Was not very usable. Everything was so slow. Forcing an install of the dep package was the only way to use it. Not very well thought through bu cannonical.

  • President@sh.itjust.works
    161·
    3 days ago

    Wait… I’m just about to switch over to Linux on a laptop and was going to use Ubuntu. This looks kind of cursed though?

    • loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works
      42·
      1 day ago

      Tbf, Unbuntu works, but they’re ran by a company which has made some questionable choices. You can still go with it if you don’t care too much, it has the advantages of being user friendly and well documented.

      If you’d rather not, but you want something not too far and equally easy, you can go with Linux Mint, which is based on Ubuntu but disables snaps. They also offer differently choices of desktop environments, the default being Cinnamon (which looks a bit more like windows), and another being Mate, which is closer to Gnome.

      They also have a “Debian Edition”, which aims to stop being dependant on Ubuntu and may or may not replace the default edition someday, but so far it’s not the one they recommend for new users.

    • rtxn@lemmy.worldEnglish
      251·
      3 days ago

      Switching to Ubuntu is way, way better than staying on Windows.

      That being said, Ubuntu is maintained by the Canonical company, and they have made some really sus decisions in the past. Things like putting Amazon ads in the application launcher and then trying to gaslight people when the inevitable backlash arrived.

      The meme above refers to Canonical’s own Snap packaging format (think of it like UWP/Microsoft Store apps vs. “regular” Win32 apps), and the way they’re pushing for its adoption. Snap is installed by default on Ubuntu and official Ubuntu flavors. You can uninstall it manually, but Canonical has modified the APT package manager so that when an application is available as a Snap package, it automatically installs the Snap back-end and the application as a Snap package without notifying the user (instead of installing the .deb-packaged applications, which is what happens on all other distributions that use APT). Canonical recently also ordered that official Ubuntu flavors (which are maintained by independent groups) can’t include Flatpak, a universal packaging format that directly competes with Snap, in their default installations.

    • Noble Shift@lemmy.world
      4·
      2 days ago

      Download the live disc images of Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Arch blah blah etc etc etc.

      Distrowatch.com is a great resource.

      Take them for a test drive before you commit.

      If this is your 1st forlay into Linux and you just wanna ride, do yourself a favor and install Mint. It works, and it’s a great way to get into it easily and painlessly and operates (mostly) how you would expect it to coming from another OS.

      Welcome

      • boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
        114·
        3 days ago

        Linux mint has no GNOME or KDE variant, so while they fix many Ubuntu issues, they are still on XOrg.

        • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3·
          2 days ago

          It is a work in progress. Also I don’t think it is going to matter that much for most people. Worse case you can install gnome on Linux Mint.

        • rtxn@lemmy.worldEnglish
          131·
          3 days ago

          So? There’s nothing preventing someone from installing either, and they’re adding Wayland support to Cinnamon.

          • rbits@lemm.ee
            3·
            2 days ago

            I did just that when I first switched to Linux, I installed KDE Neon on Linux Mint. And it broke everything. And when I went to forums to ask for help everyone yelled at me. So maybe don’t recommend installing KDE on Linux Mint.

          • boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
            24·
            3 days ago

            True one can install it on Mint. But at that level, just

            • install Kubuntu
            • add timeshift
            • run unsnap (removes snap, installs flatpak and flathub, installs apps as flatpaks)
            • add the new official deb repo for Firefox
            • remove a possibly installed Firefox Flatpak (has missing sandboxing) and install with apt
            • Jack Riddle@sh.itjust.works
              5·
              3 days ago

              While this is not that hard to do if you’re used to linux, I would not reccommend this to someone who is switching from windows.

            • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
              31·
              2 days ago

              Use flatpak

              Also how do you know snap will stay removed? I wouldn’t be surprised if it magically came back. Might as well use something that’s a little more respectful of your rights. Pop OS or Fedora seem like good choices if you just want gnome wayland. If you want KDE go for Fedora KDE

              • Mio@feddit.nu
                4·
                2 days ago

                I moved to Fedora kde. Smaller, newer packages(kde 6), and wayland updated.

                There is no reason to fight Ubuntu, just pick something that is not against your priorties. I came from Windows 10 and there was a lot of fighting for respecting user choice.

                • boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
                  11·
                  2 days ago

                  I would never use dnf Fedora again, it is an unstable mess.

                  I am on Kinoite since a year or more? Works great. Fedoras Packages are awesome, stable and often better than Uwuntu or OpenSUS

                  But dnf upgrades simply were extremely unreliable.

                  It doesnt matter how your distro looks, thats the desktop.

                  It matters how it backups, upgrades, recovers.

              • boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
                21·
                2 days ago

                Haha no, not even KDE devs use it.

                I am on Fedora Kinoite and happy. But this was about Ubuntu, and Fedora simply serves a different use case. Kubuntu and KDE Neon are both Ubuntu LTS.

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
      8·
      2 days ago

      Just install something else like Linux Mint or Pop OS. Ubuntu doesn’t seem to want to respect your rights as a user. You do one thing and the sneakily do something else. Its a bit like how Microsoft makes Edge the default after an update.

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
      7·
      3 days ago

      Pick whatever looks best. It’s not a big of a deal as we make it out to be.

      Fedora KDE is also an awesome choice though if you must choose something else.

    • send_me_your_ink@lemmynsfw.com
      3·
      2 days ago

      Switch to Linux but you have major paradigm you need to pick. Do you want your computer to be bleeding edge but it be a hobby? Or do you want slightly older and rock solid? Or do you have an enterprise support contract? You only pick Ubuntu/RHEL if you have the last one.

    • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
      42·
      2 days ago

      Ignore the noise and go with Ubuntu LTS. When you get comfortable with that, you could try Debian.

      You could play it backwards too. Try Debian, if you can’t get it to do what you want, wipe and do Ubuntu LTS. But I do not recommend this path if you have no idea what you’re doing. People underestimate how difficult it is to do simple things when you don’t know how to, no matter how trivial.

    • burgersc12@mander.xyz
      3·
      3 days ago

      KDE Neon or EndeavorOS are also options, depending on whats important to you in a distro. I recommend getting a live usb so you can boot into linux and try it before installing the whole system.

      • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
        22·
        3 days ago

        Can’t recommend EOS. Awful community when something breaks. Definitely not something for people coming from Windows.

        • burgersc12@mander.xyz
          1·
          2 days ago

          Awful community? Its Arch, which is regarded as having one of the most comprehensive guides and as long as you find someone willing to not be a dick, the community is great!

          • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
            2·
            2 days ago

            I’m specifically talking about the EOS forum, which was just dicks throwing insults towards me having a support request and the admins consequently closing the thread and hiding it, telling me to make a new one if I still need support.

            • burgersc12@mander.xyz
              1·
              2 days ago

              Why the hell you on EOS forum? Never looked at it, didn’t realize it was a cesspool. But like, no ones forcing you to use that shitty forum? I doubt most EOS users even bother to look at it.

    • lengau@midwest.social
      25·
      3 days ago

      Nah, this is just the same “hivemind hates thing” leaking over from Reddit. It’s not that different to the systemd hate. There’s a core of a point, but if a small fraction of the energy spent on the daily Two Minutes Hate were redirected towards fixing the things those folks don’t like, they wouldn’t have any molehills to treat as mountains.

    • tsugu@slrpnk.net
      89·
      3 days ago

      I would suggest not judging distros by what the online community says.

      Install Ubuntu and see whether you encounter any issues. If not, who cares about what some meme says.

    • InverseParallax@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      3 days ago

      It’s not as bad as it looks, especially if you aren’t hardcore, but for long-term linux users it’s not great.

      Debian has become what Ubuntu wanted to be: An easy, clean distribution that basically just works, which is a major reversal.

      Also consider fedora.

      But don’t be worried about Ubuntu, it’s still completely usable.

    • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
      93·
      3 days ago

      Ubuntu’s packet manager Apt was already kind of awful in many ways, especially with its PPA hell. But them adding Snap packages somehow managed to make them reach even new levels of awful.

    • ikidd@lemmy.worldEnglish
      151·
      2 days ago

      The AIO docker compose container is far better, and I’ve run Nextcloud in pretty much every installation path in the last decade, using baremetal, my own docker, snap, NCPi, and VMs. All of them have had issues with updating, backup and the host going sideways for some reason or another. The AIO has been flawless for far longer than any of them managed.

    • Pulsar@lemmy.world
      7·
      2 days ago

      You are 👍, nextcloud needs like 2 admin per each user. The snap version works fairly well even after a lot of virtualization layers. Proxmox -> Ubuntu LXC -> Snap -> Nextcloud

        • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
          9·
          2 days ago

          I can’t say I agree. BSD isn’t widely used or supported and the jails require manual setup and maintenance. Meanwhile docker compose and other container runtimes are well supported and can easily spin up and down environments based on a declarative configuration.

          • BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one
            33·
            2 days ago

            No that’s insecure, which is the whole point of containerization in the first place and subsequently purpose of jails within BSD

    • renzev@lemmy.world
      11·
      12 hours ago

      I like your comment a lot because you can substitute a lot of different things for “snap” and it still ends up sounding like a very reasonable opinion

      I feel like I would be more okay with leaded gasoline if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with anarcho-capitalism if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with PFAS-coated cookware if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with single-use plastic bags if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with cryptocurrencies if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with generative AI if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

      I feel like I would be more okay with eating highly processed meat if it didn’t still have a lot of very real flaws.

  • vala@lemmy.world
    81·
    3 days ago

    IMO the biggest issue with snaps in the sandboxing. Makes so many apps unusable for development.

  • Mio@feddit.nu
    52·
    2 days ago

    I am against container as they are slower to start and much bigger. I think they solve the problem the wrong way. Next step is probably a VM…

    Firefox have always been possible to run without container so what is the problem for all Linux distributions that containers solve? Nowadays developers have do to both… That did not less the load.