Hey everyone, I’m new to Lemmy and just starting to figure this site out. I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn’t publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here (on the official site it says “Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.”).
The weird thing I saw with Lemmy was when I wanted to sign-up on the “lemmy.ml” server instance that according to the official Lemmy Servers listing page is a “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers”.
So I thought I try that one when it’s from Lemmy’s own developers. When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called “The Principles of Communism” which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I’ve never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it’s part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.
This seemed very sketchy to me. Does anyone know something about this?
This seemed very sketchy to me.
👻 A spectre is haunting @Social_Discussion@lemm.ee ☭
Some of Ayn Rand’s earliest works are out of copyright now. Would that have made you more comfortable?
The .ml admins are, to put it mildly, far left. That’s why it’s great to have other instances like lemmy.world, feddit.org etc. If you don’t agree with how the admins run an instance you can make an account somewhere else without missing out on content.
Removed by mod
Do you actually believe this or are you intentionally lying about what their political goals are?
Enough of them have told me by now that I believe them, yes. If you’re unaware you haven’t been paying enough attention or don’t ask hard questions like “what will you do if someone doesn’t want to give their property to your collective willingly?”
what will you do if someone doesn’t want to give their property to your collective willingly
I got bad news for you about every government ever. Are you sitting down?
So I’ve certainly read some leftwing stuff on lemmy but I have yet to encounter, ant current recollection, any posts / comments which advocate violence. Not saying they don’t exist but would be curious to see some examples (if you have some on hand).
You will in time, there’s plenty on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works. the latest I can remember is “the French deserve a thousand Charlie Hebdos” (Charlie Hebdo being a magazine, ironically left-leaning no less, that was shot up with 12 people murdered and 11 injured for publishing a cartoon depicting Muhammed in 2015).
A few corrections regarding your misconceptions of Communist theory, for anyone scrolling by but unfamiliar with Marxism:
-
Marxists advocate for revolution, because Capitalism cannot simply be voted out. Given that following Marxist analysis to its correct conclusions necessitates transitioning to Socialism, this can be seen as a “call to violence.” Yes, it is, but out of necessity. Marxists don’t advocate simply massacring everyone of slightly different beliefs, rather, Marxists are not Blanquists and thus believe revolution is only possible with mass, popular support.
-
The Marxist conception of a State is a tool of class oppression, not all instances of government. Rather, Marxists advocate for working towards full Public Ownership of Capital and Central Planning by the government. When Marxists say they believe the State will wither away, they mean eventually all property will be folded into the public sector and thus the concept of “classes” will cease to exist as well, gradually as property is folded into the public sector to the degree to which markets have formed Big Industry and Monopolist Syndicates. From Engels:
“When ultimately it becomes the real representative of the whole of society, it renders itself superfluous. As soon as there is no social class to be held in subjection any longer, as soon as class domination and the struggle for individual existence based on the anarchy of production existing up to now are eliminated together with the collisions and excesses arising from them, there is nothing more to repress, nothing necessitating a special repressive force, a state. The first act in which the state really comes forward as the representative of the whole of society – the taking possession of the means of production in the name of society – is at the same time its last independent act as a state. The interference of the state power in social relations becomes superfluous in one sphere after another, and then dies away of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things and the direction of the processes of production. The state is not “abolished”, it withers away.”
Removed by mod
Sure is great to cherry pick and remove any and all context! All I did was add context to the nonsense you spouted.
Mmhmm
Edit: Oh look, the mods removed the photo evidence of their users calling for violence. Wonder why, anyway it’s over on meanwhileongrad where they can’t do shit about it. Tough break.
-
The level of censorship is going to be different depending on your instance and where you are posting to. A lot of instances are managed by individuals or small teams out of passion. They can do as they please and don’t have to pander to everyone for commercial appeal like Reddit or Tumblr. If someone doesn’t like what they’re doing they can join a different instance or create their own.
Instances can defederate from each other over these differences. A lot are defederated from the instance Exploding Heads because of their alt right content for example. From what I understand you can also report content to the administrators of your instance if it goes against their rules and I think they can remove it from appearing on your instance (or block the user that posted it). This isn’t going to stop it from appearing elsewhere.
I also wouldn’t say it’s sketchy. It’s just the overall political leaning of a lot of Lemmy is relatively left leaning and having those measures in place kind of demonstrates the vibe the instance is trying to create.
The issue you’ve faced varies instance to instance. If you want complete freedom and censorship resistance, you have to run your own server.
most people have answered your questions so i want to chime in with the information that i wish someone had told me when i first joined:
a lot of people came to lemmy from reddit like you and i both did and also mostly for the same reasons. most of them went to lemmy.world because it was the first search result on the big search engines like google & bing. those people have turned lemmy.world into a mini reddit and ended up recreating the same problems that reddit has plus more; hence the bot check that you ran into when you signed up.
the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent; i think of it like if r/politics; r/anarchy/; r/communism; r/socialism; etc. went off and created another social media platform and then started discussing everything like reddit does, but from this perspective. instances is the name given to individual servers and all those servers combined is nicknamed the lemmyverse, or lemmy, for short.
the fediverse is the nickname given to the pubg protocol that’s shared between all the platforms that use it like lemmy, mastadon, kbin, threads, bluesky, etc and that means that the conversations from all of those platforms are shared amongst each other so it’s possible to be on lemmy and have a conversation with someone on kbin, for example. i stick with lemmy because it’s doesn’t have any venture capital investors pushing the admins to enshitify it to maximize profits like has been happening to reddit and bluesky; i’ve been moving from one social media platform to another because of enshitification like reddit’s since the 1990s (before it was called social media) so this last part matters to me a lot.
i started off on lemmy.world like most ex-redditors did and discovered that they’ve duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations so i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn’t defederate with anybody due to fact they’re the primary instance where lemmy development takes place. the federation is what makes lemmy decentralized and when you defederate; you cut yourself off from the rest of the lemmyverse, but lemmy.world and some of the other instances that got most of the ex-redditors like the star trek instance use it to try cut off content and people from the instances that they don’t like and that’s their right since it’s their instance. lemmy is decentralized so trying to cut out people & content only serves to cut yourself off and that’s intention behind the fediverse; to make it so that no power tripping mod or ban happy admin can stop the conversation like they do on reddit.
everything is done by volunteers and donations and, if you don’t like one instance; you can move onto any other one and still get a similar experience. i don’t like letting other people decide what i can & can’t see and who i can & can’t talk to so i mostly stick to the instances that don’t defederate with anybody like lemmy.ml and i use the block-people and block-communities features when i feel like i need them for myself.
the fediverse is the nickname given to [instances using] the pubg protocol
Haha I’m guessing that was meant to say ActivityPub
the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent
[Bonus info]
Reddit has a history of big events when a clump of subreddits get banned all at once when a newspaper reports on them. A lot of right-wing ones went to Voat and later *.win, and some socialist ones (notably /r/GenZedong) went to Lemmygrad, which became the largest federated instance at the time. /r/chapotraphouse also made their own fork, Hexbear, although while it was the largest, it wasn’t federated with the rest for years. Most instances were either hard-left (e.g. Lemmygrad, Lemmy.ml, SLRPNK) or a slight left, but tge third most populous for a while was Wolfballs, a ‘free speech’ instance, de facto alt-right (US right-Libertarian style instance), which ended up defederated from almost all the others due to constant bigotry and rule breaking when posting on other instances. Wolfballs admin eventually shut it down before the Reddit API exodus because, among other reasons, they realized the neo-Nazis among their users were serious and not just trolling.
Overall, the few right-leaning instances are alienated from the bulk of federation and become islands or vaporize, but most just dismiss Lemmy or even the Fediverse at large as a left wing commie thing.
Haha I’m guessing that was meant to say ActivityPub
yes, that’s what i get for going fast; thanks for the correction and the history lesson.
they’ve duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations
I disagree that defederation is censorship, but no worries, we don’t have to agree! However:
i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn’t defederate with anybody
If you switch to the “blocked” tab you’ll see that this is absolutely not true.
One of my primary criteria when I needed to make a new lemmy account (due to problems with my original instance) was to be sure I picked an instance that had pre-emptively defederated from Threads. (as .ml does, but there are a lot more in that list)
If you switch to the “blocked” tab you’ll see that this is absolutely not true.
oh yes, i keep forgetting about the fascist and corporate shill instances; they were also the reason why i went with lemmy.ml and why i think it’ll take longer for it to enshitify. thanks for correction.
If you have an email address, you’re already used to the federated service pattern. When you sign up for a gmail, you’re making an account with Google to be able to send emails to anyone else with an email address. And there’s nothing stopping Google from making you fill out a “sketchy” application to get an account.
On Lemmy, each instance has its own set of rules, and if you don’t like them, you just make an account on a different instance.
As far as censorship, each “community” (analog to subreddit) lives on a certain instance and the rules of that instance apply.
Edit: also on the topic of communism, however you feel about communism in the physical world is irrelevant when it comes to the digital world. Free and Open Source Software makes the world go 'round, and is often communist in nature, even if done unintentionally. The pattern of people developing software for their own purposes, and then sharing it freely with others is the purest form of “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.” That said, running an instance isn’t free, so make sure to kick your instance a few bucks if you appreciate their work.
Okay but implying that a given instance is the main community for Lemmy by promoting that it’s run by Lemmy’s developers and then making people repeat phrases from the Communist Manifesto just to make an account ain’t exactly the best first impression to give, no?
If they’ve been trained to immediately recoil at the word “communism”, and don’t understand how federated moderation works, then yes, it’ll probably scare away a good number of users. But on the flip side it’s not a for-profit business trying to hook DAU using predatory and emotionally exploitative patterns, so who cares about first impressions? The people who use Lemmy know why they’re using it.
It’s not the context of the article, it’s the presumption of solemn affirmation as a requirement to entry that is agregious, no?
You’re just restating what OP said. I refer you to my original post.
TL:DR; ml is for Marxist-Leninist, but each server has their own philosophy and rules, so just comment and post on other servers if you want nothing to do with this. On censorship, modlogs are public so there’s no hiding stupid admin actions unlike Reddit.
Hello and welcome to Lemmy! Enjoy your stay, even if it can be a little chaotic the discussion and vibes are generally in a good place for real people to talk, and I think the Fediverse is where the future of our internet should be, open and people-first instead of corporations.
To give you context, the lead developers of Lemmy and maintainers of the lemmy.ml, are Marxist-Leninists, and that’s why it’s .ml and that’s related to the signup process. Esoteric signup processes (most other servers are just describe why you want to join) are there to help prove you’re not a bot or troll or are aligned with that server’s values. Lemmy.ml is a general topic instance but their moderation has a pro-Russian, pro-China slant, and have been known to ban comments and users speaking against that on controversial (e.g. Ukraine, Gaza, US politics) threads. That’s the reality, there is a lot of valid criticism of that from within and outside Lemmy, but that’s also their perogative. (That sounds not great, but stay with me here.)
However, being part of the Fediverse, this software extends beyond the developers’ own political whims. So, you aren’t subject to their philosophy if you don’t post on .ml and aren’t registered with them. Other servers have different policies, some more laissez-faire like db0 or ee, some very protective like beehaw.
I hope you can understand that even if admins sometimes have power trips, they don’t have the power of Spez to kick you off the whole platform or enforce awful rules. If we compare Reddit to a kingdom where you can be expelled at any moderator or admins whim, Lemmy is more like a fiefdom where you can only be expelled from the duchy. If you’re an extremely unlikable troll, every server will reject you.
Because these relationships between servers are organic, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows and there are a lot of topics people can and will disagree on. Please just try to be reasonable with your fellow user and moderator, try not to get upset if your post is removed (double check the rules of the community AND server you post to) if you get 20 downvotes on something unpopular (though it’s avoided on lemm.ee since downvotes are disabled). Modlogs are open so if you think a ban/removal is unfair/unjust, appeal to your mods/admins first, if you think it’s still unreasonable or part of a power trip rampage you can have a discussion about it on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com, !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, !modabuse@lemmy.sdf.org, and mention your old user handle for people to judge whether it was justified or not. Unpopular stuff often doesn’t get censored unless it breaks rules, or is just plain mean, trolling, flaming or unproductive.
Lemmy didn’t used to be just a reddit alternative. Before the Exodus, it was a safe space for tankies (in short, people glorifying the type of communism practiced in the Soviet Union).
Just pick another instance. On lemmy.ml you’ll be banned as soon as you criticize Russia or China anyway.
why does the sign-up process on lemmy.ml involve having to copy a sentence from “The Principles of Communism”?
The OP is trolling.
Looks
Fuck me. It’s real. I’m at a lost of words…WTF.
EDIT You can’t escape censorship on Lemmy. If you run your own server with full Free Speech. You will have instances blocking you. Welcome to the modern Internet.
You are free to self select a commune… Oops I mean a instance of lemmy that best reflects your values.
hahahahahahahahahaaaaa
you’re fucking kidding me
It’s quite resistant to any single entity’s censorship, but if you share things most server admins consider unacceptable, other servers will block your server.
lemmy.ml… copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called “The Principles of Communism”
At least one of the Lemmy developers is a hardcore communist, and some people see lemmy.ml as a little sketchy for that reason. I see you found another server, which is exactly how federation is meant to work. While the overall culture tends to be left-leaning, most server admins are not hardcore communists and don’t censor political positions that aren’t advocating violence or discrimination.
Okay awesome!
theres more than just the lemmy platform to access the fediverse also. i use an mbin-based instance that can access all the same content as lemmy, and then some. https://moist.catsweat.com
Hmmm, it seems that trolls have invaded AskLemmy.
It’s normal and actually kind of cool by design - the ‘fediverse’ is basically a bunch of different servers (instances) that can all connect to each other. I’m on Lemmy.world, my other account is on midwest.social, but when I’m looking at posts from all communities on either of those I see more or less the same stuff from all the other communities across the other instances.
But some instances have a theme, like Midwest.social is kind of intended for people from the midwest, but anyone can join. Lemmy.ml is kind of a communist hangout. Solarpunk(spelling) is a lot more eco-conscious than other instances.
You can join any instance you want, sometimes after you join an instance you notice a theme that doesn’t really vibe with you, but you can join a more ‘vanilla’ instance, stay on your current instance, or look around for some instance that’s really into whatever you’re into.
But at the end of the day your credentials on an instance are basically a passport for all the other instances, and it’s mostly gonna be a legit good passport.
That said, if an instance goes to crap from bad moderation or from horrible viewpoints or culture, other instances can basically block it, and if you’re on an instance that becomes defederated your basically cut off from all the other instances, so you better go find a better instance, but that doesn’t happen all too often
That’s an interesting description of lemmy.ml
I’ll just say that hiding not only the instance, but also any comments from any user registered with that instance has made my Lemmy experience about 1000 times better.
Edit: oh shit I’m thinking lemmyGRAD.ml lol
